CHM 538
Hi, I am a junior pre-med. I have yet to fulfill my biochemistry requirement for medical school, and I heard a rumor that CHM 538—Biological Chemistry which is being offered next semester is going to be adequate for medical school purposes. While it is likely that I would take CHM 538 if it fulfilled the biochem requirement, I’m contacting you not only on my own behalf but also to alert you that I heard this rumor from a friend of mine who has already enrolled in CHM 538. I thought you should know that there may be other pre-meds signed up for this class because they believe it’s sufficient biochemistry for medical school.
Answer: Good to hear from you. First off, let's clarify: Biochemistry isn't required at most medical schools. A list of schools requiring Biochem is on our website (there are 14, at last count), under "Pre-med/Coursework"; also listed there are the many schools that "suggest" Biochem. As for CHM 538, after corresponding with the professor who teaches the course as well as some other CHM faculty, it has been determined that this is not a course to take for any fundamental instruction in Biochemistry. This isn't a course desgined to fulfill medical schools' requirement or recommendation, nor is it the right course for the purpose of preparing you for more advanced Biochem in med school. I'm so glad you contacted us directly; I wish your friends did as well! MOL 345 is what you need to do if you are going to take Biochemistry at Princeton.
Dropping to Three Classes
Hi, I have a question about dropping to three classes in a semester. During sophomore year, I dropped down to three classes because I felt overwhelmed in the classes I was taking and I was not doing well in this one class. This fall as a junior, I am taking a language class that I am considering dropping. I just received my midterm grade, and it is very poor. I am trying to pull my grades up this semester, so I don't want to continue in this class. I have taken two classes over the summer, so I will not be course deficient by Princeton standards. I wanted to know, how do med schools view this? Do med schools pay attention to the number of classes you took per term? Or, do they look at the classes you did take and how you performed in those classes? I am meeting with the professor to go over my midterm and to see if there is any way to bring up my grade. However, it seems as though even if I were to get an A on my final, my overall grade would still be hurting my gpa. I'm not really sure how to proceed at this point. Thank you for your help!
Answer: Yes, medical schools will look at the number of courses you take each term as well as the course level - but only broadly. I don't think most medical schools have time to dissect every course selection you made, but they do look for evidence of a rigorous courseload. In light of this, we recommend that you drop below the standard Princeton courseload only once during your four years here. If you've already dropped down to three classes in the past then it would be best if you maintain a full courseload now. As you know, we do not advise you to take summer courses for the same basic reason: medical schools look for signs that you are preparing yourself for a very heavy courseload of science as an M1--and as a first-year medical student, you will not be able to diminish your courseload or string your courses out across the summers. Still, dropping down to three courses can be explained to medical schools when you apply, but it is much harder to explain your doing more than once; it will appear, perhaps rightly, that you are being overly cautious. Hang in there.
That 5th Course
Hi, I am a sophomore and have not yet taken five courses in one semester, but I am scheduled to take four courses I think will be fairly difficult and time-consuming in the spring semester. Is it advisable to just take these four and then take a (non-premed) course at another college over the summer? Thanks.
Answer: Only under rare, individualized circumstances do we recommend taking courses over the summer at another school. Generally speaking, we prefer that you seek good clinical experience, service activities, and possibly even research during your summers, and recharge your intellectual batteries to prepare for the regular school year. Don't forget that you do have the PDF option for up to 4 courses. We believe that "maxing" out on 4 PDF's in college might look a little "light" to medical schools, but you're certainly welcome to use a couple of the PDF's without jeopardizing anything in terms of medical school admission. Why not do your five courses this spring, but PDF one of them?
EGR 191 - 193 for Engineers
I am an Engineering student. Right now I'm in the integrated introduction to Engineering, Math, and Physics. I just want to make sure that what I've heard is true, that EGR 191 (along with 193 next semester) will fulfill my Physics requirements for medical school.
Answer: Yes. The course closely maps PHY 103-104, so it will count as your introductory Physics for medical school. Just make sure you complete both semesters, 191 and 193. Good luck in SEAS!
Integrated Science Program, Starting Sophomore Year
Hi, I am interested in the genomics sequence for sophomore year in place of MOL 214. It offers exposure to biology, genetics, and biochemistry. The description says that it is equivalent to credit for MOL 214 and MOL 345, both of which I had planned to take, but I was having a hard time fitting biochemistry into my schedule. The description sounds extremely interesting and is very tempting. Do you know if this sequence is much more challenging or has disadvantages to it that I should be aware of? If you could let me know any details pertaining to the program at all, I would really appreciate it.
Answer: The sequence is indeed very challenging. The integrated science program looks for those with rigorous science backgrounds and strong performance. However, the program isn't designed for the pre-med; it is designed for those interested in doing high-level science, but was not put together with the pre-medical curriculum in mind nor with the thought that future doctors would enroll. The last thing you should do is part of the program (and not all of it). It has yet to be seen how medical schools will interpret the transcripts of individuals who took the integrated program over freshman and sophomore years in place of the traditional introductory science courses. But at least they did start from the beginning, so there is consistency to their path. Jumping into the second year of the program runs the risk of leaving medical schools unable to accurately interpret what you've had and what you haven't had. Especially when it comes to Biochemistry, medical schools may very likely want more depth (the medical schools that require/recommend Biochem, that is). Yes, the program "offers exposure," but medical schools will be hard pressed to determine the depth of the exposure you've had. In sum, the second year of the sequence should not be taken merely as a means of completing Biochemistry for medical school, and should not be done only in part.
Science or Non-Science Major?
My parents are telling me that I need to major in Mol Biology or another science if I want to go to med school, but I've heard from other places that it doesn't matter. Some of my friends even say the opposite of my parents - they think I should not choose a science. I'm a sophomore and have to decide very soon. Which do you recommend?
Answer: When it comes to your life as a pre-med student, please remember: admission to medical school is not affected, positively or negatively, by your choice of major. Princeton pre-meds majoring in the humanities or social sciences had just as much luck getting into med school last year as the science majors did. Many of you still major in the sciences, but that is because you enjoy these subjects, not because these subjects are somehow more attractive to med schools. Non-science majors need to demonstrate a proficiency in science, yes, but that can be done through their pre-med coursework and any additional science coursework - regardless of major. Reflect on your favorite classes and professors, and choose a major based on that. It's also a good idea to meet with the directors of undergrad studies or 'department reps' in a couple of the departments you're considering, and try to get a feel for how available they'll be during your junior and senior years, and how enthusiastic they seem about ever seeing you again (!). And don't forget to consider the smaller majors, such as the languages, Classics, Philosophy, etc. If and when you apply to medical school, those who evaluate you will look for intellectual depth and rigor, strong letters from faculty, and genuine intellectual curiosity, not for any particular subject of study. Your question certainly comes at an opportune time for the freshmen and sophomores considering their concentration. Thanks for asking it.
Doubling Up on Science
HPA – I’m a freshman who is thinking about taking MOL 214 in the spring. I’m also in Chemistry right now. I heard that it would be hard to take two sciences together but I also heard that you should take more than one science at a time. Should I do MOL 214?
Answer: Whether or not you’re comfortable taking MOL 214 as a freshman will depend on the strength of your background in biology and on how successful you’ve been so far in your classes. If you’re struggling in CHM 201 right now and you’re working as hard as you can—and seeking help—then it probably wouldn’t be a good idea to add MOL 214 to the mix (wait and take it with EEB 211 as a sophomore). However, if you’re doing fine in CHM as well as your other courses, and you’re up for the challenge, then go for it. What you’ve heard about taking more than one science course at a time is generally true. It is wise to “double up” on science courses at some point during your college career, if at all possible. Of course if you concentrate in a science, then you’ll certainly do that automatically, but for the humanities and social science majors out there, just remember that the 1st-year med school curriculum is vastly science-oriented, and to indicate to Admissions that you’re ready for that much science coming at you all at once, it is a good idea to demonstrate your ability to handle two hard science classes at once. Let us repeat, however, that this shouldn’t be done at the expense of strong performance.
Chemistry
I have a question regarding chemistry requirements for
medical school. I understand that if we use AP credit to place
out of General Chemistry, it is recommended that we take an
upper-level course in inorganic chemistry to fulfill the
requirements of medical schools that may not accept AP credit.
I was wondering how many such upper-level chemistry courses
you would recommend that we take, and whether they ought to
include a lab (in particular, if we are already taking an
upper-level lab in another area, such as Mol Bio)? Does
Biochemistry count as one of these upper-level chemistry
classes, or is it insufficient to meet the requirement? Also,
is it alright to take this advanced chemistry class during the
senior year while one is applying to medical schools, or would
you recommend taking it earlier?
Answer: Yes, and yes! Biochemistry is a great choice: the
medical schools love it (a few require it), and you may
definitely take it senior year fall (it's only offered in the
fall).
English Requirement, I
I had a question about the English requirement. I have
completed a writing seminar, but still need to take one more
literature class. Does this have to be completed before I
apply to medical schools? I'm a junior and plan to apply to
medical schools this summer. Does this mean I need to complete
the English requirement this spring before applying or would
taking an English class senior year be fine? Thank you for
your help.
Answer: That is the one requirement you can leave until
after you apply (if you’re a junior). You need to put your
courses for next year down on the AMCAS application when you
apply, so the schools will see you are intending to take it.
English Requirement, II
I’m trying to choose my classes for next semester. I’m a little curious about the English requirement for medical school. How specifically “English” does the class need to be? Does it need to be a class in English literature? Can it be literature in translation? Can it be a history or philosophy course that is writing intensive? Would any LA requirements count as an “English" class? I’ve also heard that all writing seminars count as a semester of the English requirement. Is this true? Thanks a lot.
Answer: As it is with many coursework issues, medical schools vary on this one! Yes, your freshman writing seminar would count as one of the two English classes that many medical schools require; that much is clear. For the other course, we recommend a literature class. Some medical schools specify that part of their English requirement needs to include "literature." Yes, it can definitely be literature in translation, or literature of another ethnicity, too. Some Comp Lit classes may qualify, as would some classes taught by foreign language departments as long as the course is taught in English. Not just any LA counts, and history or philosophy classes would not count. Is "literature" in the title of the course? Does the syllabus predominantly contain works of fiction and/or poetry? Just because it is writing intensive does not mean it will fulfill the requirement as many med schools intend it. Lastly, ANY course that begins with "ENG" will certainly count.
Freshman Writing
Does the freshman writing seminar fulfill the English
requirement for medical schools?
Answer: Your freshman writing class fulfills half of the
English requirement that some med schools have. Any other
class taught through the English Dept or with "literature" in
the title (taught in the English language) will fulfill the
other half. Roughly two-thirds of U.S.
medical schools require English, and of these they almost all
require two semesters.
Freshman Seminars
To whom it may concern,
I was wondering if one of the Freshman Seminars could fulfill one of the two required English classes for med school. During Orientation, I was told that a Freshman Seminar could count as an English class if it specifically refers to the English language as the main focus. Thank you.
Answer: As usual with these requirements (especially the "English" requirement!), it is better to err on the safe side. We advise you to count a Freshman Seminar as one of your two English classes for medical school ONLY IF the course has "literature" in its title. It's not quite as simple as saying that the course should focus on the English language. There are medical schools out there that specify that one of their two terms of English focus on literature; there are not many schools that make this distinction, but enough that we would advise you to be careful. As long as the course will appear on your transcript with "literature" in its title, you should be fine. And, as you know, your Freshman Writing Seminar (not to be confused with a Freshman Seminar!) counts as your other English class.
The only exception to the above comments is one Canadian medical school (Univ of British Columbia) which insists that "English" courses be taught ONLY in the English Dept. Unless you're Canadian, you do not need to worry!
500-Level Courses
I’ve taken a couple of 500-level grad courses at Princeton. They’ve been great, actually among the best classes I’ve had. When I apply to med school will the grades I got in these classes be counted in my undergraduate GPA or will they be separate since they’re technically grad classes?
Answer: This is a great question. Graduate coursework done at your undergraduate institution, while you are an undergraduate, will be included in your undergraduate GPA’s when you complete your generic AMCAS application as Step 1 of applying to medical school. As long as you have not yet graduated from college, 500-level course will still be counted as work done toward the completion of your bachelor’s degree. If you’ve done well in these courses, that’s good news!
Neuroscience Certificate
I have a quick question regarding my course load this
fall. I originally was pursuing a neuroscience certificate,
but have recently found out that as a premed, I must take 2
semesters of biology and that AP credit does not count as one
of those semesters; it only allows you to take a higher level
class (without a lab). In light of this, I wanted to take
EEB311, but as a result would probably drop my neuro class
this fall (MOL408). I am DYING to take some humanities to
balance out my schedule. I am leaning toward dropping my
certificate in neuroscience so that I might be able to take
some other classes of interest to me throughout the next two
years, but I wanted to make sure that I am not missing
anything, or not thinking of any reason (med-school-wise) that
I should think twice about dropping the certificate. Is it
something that is beneficial when applying to med schools? Or
am I just as good a candidate without it?
Answer: But you are currently taking biochemistry, yes?
That fulfills the MOL 214-plus-one-other-biology-course
requirement if you have AP. You may take EEB 311 if you like,
but in light of your desire to take more humanities courses,
do so! You could always take EEB 311 next fall if you wish.
No, it does not matter if you do not pursue the neuro
certificate. As it turns out, you have taken a number of neuro
courses, and medical schools will think that is nice. But no,
you don't need to pursue the certificate for them. They'll be
happy anyway with your course selection thus far, and your
high GPA.
Do Neuroscience Courses Count as ‘Science’?
I’m interested in going for the certificate in Neuroscience, so am in PSY 258 right now, the Fundamentals of Neuroscience. I know that medical schools will look at my science grades when I apply to med school. Will this course be counted as ‘science’ or as psychology?
Answer: With the ever-growing popularity of Neuroscience courses at Princeton, this type of question is ever-increasing at HPA. Generally speaking, Neuroscience is listed among the subjects that AMCAS will count as “science” when you apply (AMCAS is the generic online application that is step 1 of the application process). AMCAS figures all courses whose content are primarily Biology, Chemistry, Physics, or Math into the “science GPA.” So, in our experience, PSY 258, while taught through the Psychology Dept at Princeton and having the “PSY” course number, has been counted as science by our applicants as they complete their AMCAS applications; it is categorized as Biology. One note, however: If you continue on and take more Neuroscience classes after PSY 258, please do not assume that all of your Neuro courses will automatically count as science. It has been our experience that other Neuro courses, labeled “PSY,” are considered on a case-by-case basis, and may be categorized as “science” or, possibly, “behavioral and social science.” If you feel the content of the course was mostly biological in nature, then you should label them as such when completing your AMCAS. Whether or not these are re-classified during the AMCAS verification process is hard to predict.
MOL 215
I have a quick question. If I take MOL 215 next semester,
will it fulfill the pre-med requirement or am I required to
take MOL 214, too? Thanks.
Answer: You may take MOL 215 instead of 214. You know that
depending on whether you have AP biology credit or not, you
need another biology course, with or without lab, right? If
you don't have AP biology credit, you'll need to take EEB 211,
too.
Question of the Week: MOL 214 or 215
I am a freshman, Class of ’13. I have received a 5 on the AP Chemistry, Biology, and Calculus tests so I have 2 AP units in those subjects. I would like your advice regarding MOL 214 & MOL 215. I understand that 215 is more math-oriented than 214. For this reason, I am considering taking 215 next fall. However, I am concerned that 215 might not cover the material I need for medical school. Which class, 214 or 215, better covers material for the MCAT? Which class do you think I should take?
Answer: Both MOL 214 and MOL 215 “count” as biology for medical school, as you know. MOL 215 is more quantitative in nature, and the faculty who teach 215 have made it very clear that they want only students who have strong mathematical backgrounds. A requirement for the course is AP in Calculus and Physics, and since you do not have the AP units in Physics it would appear that you do not qualify. However, both courses will prepare you very well for the molecular biology included in the Biological Sciences section of your MCAT, and will give you the foundation you need for medical study. There is no evidence to suggest that one or the other version of the course better prepares pre-med students. More pre-meds take MOL 214, surely, because of the quantitative nature of 215 and the AP prerequisites.
Upper-Level Biology
Q: I have AP credit in Biology. I took MOL 214 and did another Biology, 400-level, but got a C+ in it. If I take another upper-level Biology class and earn a better grade, can I use the new course as my upper-level Biology for med school or do I have to use the class I originally planned to count?
A: Interesting question. It would be a good idea for you to take more biology, given your grade in the 400-level course. On your secondary applications for med school some day, the schools may ask you to list which Princeton courses you’re “counting” toward their biology requirement. In your case, you could list MOL 214 + the new course. This would be a wise thing to do if you performed better in the new class. However, the positive effect of this is limited. On your AMCAS application (the first step before the secondary applications), your science GPA will be computed using ALL science courses, so the C+ will be factored in.
Physics
I have a course-related premed question for you. I know
that students who have taken AP Chemistry in high school can
place out of general chemistry at
Princeton and go directly to Orgo. What about AP Physics? If a
student has taken the AP Physics B or C exam and done well,
can he or she simply not take physics in college?
Alternatively, would AP credit just let a student take an
upper level physics course? Thanks.
Answer: First, you need to determine if
Princeton
granted you 2 units of AP credit in Physics. If you indeed
have AP credit in Physics, then you need to take only a
semester of upper-level Physics. You do not need to repeat
general Physics (101-102). Possible course selections for your
one term of more advanced Physics include CHM 306 (Physical
Chem) AST 204, or GEO 320.
Taking Physics This Summer
Hello, I met with an adviser last week and discussed the possibility of taking the physics requirements over the summer, so that I can take the MCAT either at the end of the summer or early next year. I know that PHY 101-102 satisfies the pre-med requirement. My understanding is that these are not calculus-based, since calculus wasn't listed as a prerequisite, but I'm not positive. I looked into the course guide and it was ambiguous. When I am registering for summer courses, is it OK to choose the Physics without calculus? Secondly, is either option substantially better than the other (calc-based or not); will it make much difference?
Answer: You may take the Physics that is not calculus-based. The calculus-based Physics is not necessary for the MCAT. You could be taking Physics next year, however. People currently have pre-med requirements "in progress" when they take the MCAT, and now that the computerized MCAT is offered in April as well as several dates in May, your Physics would be almost finished at the time of the test (you're studying on your own outside of class anyway). Plus, the Physics material would be fresher in your mind at the time your did the MCAT. Medical schools prefer that the pre-med requirements, including Physics, be fulfilled on one's home campus during the regular school year, in conjunction with a full courseload.
Statistics
Hi Advisers,
I am going to take PSY 251 (Quantitative Methods) next spring, and wanted to check and see if that was the intro statistics class for the psychology department, or if there was another statistics class that you would recommend instead. Thank you for your help!
Answer: There is no one stats class at Princeton, as you probably know by now. Instead, stats is offered through a variety of departments. Any of the introductory classes is fine to take. Yes, PSY 251 is such a class—and a popular choice with pre-meds finishing up their math requirement. Other Statistics courses we recommend are EEB 355/MOL355 (Biostatistics), ECO 202 (Statistics & Data Analysis for Economics), SOC 301 (Sociological Research Methods), and ORF 245 (Fundamentals of Engineering Statistics). Some are fall courses, some spring. We always advise that you choose a version of stats offered through a department you’re interested in. Re: the pre-med math requirement, please remember: If you do not want to proceed to MAT 104 after taking 103, or if you have AP credit for 103-104 but would like to take another math-based class, stats is a good option.
Biostatistics
Dear Advisors,
Will Biostats count as a stats class for medical school? I’m thinking of taking EEB 355 next fall. Thank you!
Answer: Yes, the Biostats course cross-listed between our two biology departments, called EEB 355/MOL 355: Introduction to Biostatistics, will certainly “count” as a Stats class for medical school. Remember: med schools do not require Statistics per se, but many recommend a background in Stats if at all possible. For med school, you are required to do two semesters of Math if you do not have any AP in Math. If you are looking for a second semester of Math after one term of Calculus is already completed, a Stats class is a fine option. Or, if you’ve completed the Math requirement because of earlier coursework or AP credit, then taking Stats in addition to the Math you’ve already done is certainly fine, especially if you have a genuine interest in the subject.
Pre-med Classes at
Princeton?
I'm a freshman with a question regarding another medical school prerequisite--organic chemistry. I was under the impression that it is best for me to take Orgo (and for that matter, all of my pre-med classes) at Princeton. However, I've been told that several people elect to take this class over the summer at another institution. Is this advised? Thank you very much.
Answer: It is always best to take your pre-med requirements at your home institution. Medical schools prefer that you do, and some of them voice this preference quite strongly. The only exceptions might be if you intend to study abroad and can't get all of the courses in before you hope to apply, or if you came to the pre-med curriculum 'late' and are trying to catch up. If you're worried by the reputation of a particularly rigorous course such as Orgo, and want to have enough time to do well in it, our only advice would be to plan wisely, and resist as much as possible the urge to get into higher-level courses in your major (or intended major) until after you're through Orgo. Incidentally, summer coursework in general isn't frowned upon, so if you'd like to take courses OTHER than the pre-med requirements at another institution over the summer, then go for it. If your overall grades are an issue, please come talk to us.
Taking a Pre-med Course Online
Hi! I'm a sophomore and I need to take Physics next summer before I can take the MCAT or apply to med school. Can you tell me if it's OK to take Physics online? I've found several options for online courses. This would be cheaper and more convenient for me than doing the regular course. Do medical schools accept these classes?
Answer: Your medical school requirements need to be taken the old-fashioned way--in a classroom with preceptors and professors present. Most medical schools would not accept prerequisites such as Physics taken purely online. For one thing, what would you do for lab? Even if the online courses you're considering do offer some sort of "virtual" lab, medical schools would be deeply skeptical about the quality of the material you've learned. The same would apply to courses taken by a Princeton student at a community college. And lastly, as we hope you know by now, we do not recommend that you do your pre-medical requirements over the summer. Thanks for asking this one!
Spanish
I want to learn Spanish in addition to German. I know that some medical schools prefer that applicants have knowledge of Spanish. Which path would you recommend, Spanish or German?
Answer: It’s not so much that medical schools prefer applicants with Spanish but that students at many medical schools these days are asking for Spanish classes to be added to the course offerings at their schools. Many of expressed frustration over not knowing basic Spanish when they have begun having patient contact. Med schools do their best to offer Spanish, especially if their hospitals treat a high number of Spanish-speaking patients, but these courses tend to fill up quickly. We do not see your situation as an “either/or” dilemma. If you have some talent and love for German, and already have some of your language requirement done in that subject, then by all means stick with it. Don’t forget that some knowledge of Spanish can be gained through summer course work, often through study abroad programs, and can also be gained during the “glide” year that many people take before entering medical school. Do not worry so much about what medical schools “prefer” and think more about the subjects you love—or, in this case, the cultures and countries that spark your curiosity.
EEB 211
Dear HPA,
Do I really need to take EEB 211? I don’t have any AP credit in Biology but I have a very strong background in it, and I’ve done MOL 214. I know other people who have skipped 211. I also have plans to take more Biology in college. Is it really necessary to do 211 or can I skip it?
Answer: Without AP credit in Biology, you need to take EEB 211. Medical schools require one year’s worth of “introductory” or “general” biology for applicants who entered college without AP credit. At most colleges, your year would be made up of “General Bio I” followed by “General Bio II.” At Princeton, that sequence is thought of as MOL 214 and EEB 211. Perhaps those people you know who have skipped EEB 211 have had AP in Biology; such people need to do MOL 214 + an upper-level biology course, usually Biochem. Medical schools can be very sticky about this introductory biology issue regardless of what upper-level courses you’ve done.
EEB 222, I
I had a question about the pre-med biology requirement. I'm
in EEB 211 right now and was told that instead of just taking
MOL 214 next semester, a new class--EEB 222--is being offered
that would also fulfill the pre-med bio requirement. I was
wondering whether or not this was true, whether it might be
better to take one or the other in terms of preparation for
the MCAT, and how you think taking the EEB course would
reflect on my application for med schools. Thanks for your
time!
Answer: MOL 214 is still necessary for anyone starting
their college Biology without any AP credit. MOL 214 is a
course that medical schools require, and its content will
prepare you best for the MCAT. For students with 2 AP units
in Biology, the basic requirement that most medical schools
state is "one year of additional biology," so those with AP
credit may be OK in EEB 222 (along with Biochem or an
upper-level biology class), but the fact remains that MOL 214
will best prepare you for the MCAT, so we still suggest taking
it even for the students with AP. And, to repeat, for those without AP, MOL 214 is required.
EEB 222, II
I had a question about the pre-med biology requirement.
I was told that instead of taking MOL 214, a new class--EEB
222--is being offered that would also fulfill the pre-med bio
requirement. I was wondering whether or not this was true,
whether it might be better to take one or the other in terms
of preparation for the MCAT, and how you think taking the EEB
course would reflect on my application for med schools. Thanks
for your time!
Answer: We're re-running a modified version of this
Question of the Week from last December since the question
keeps coming up... MOL 214 is still necessary for
anyone wishing to fulfilled the Biology requirements for
medical school. MOL 214 is a course that medical schools
require, and its content will best prepare you for the
MCAT. Students with 2 AP units in Biology should take MOL
214 along with Biochem or an upper-level biology class.
However, students without
AP in Biology should take MOL 214 and EEB
211. We do not advise you to try and replace MOL 214 with EEB 222, as the
courses are quite different.
CHM 301-302 or 303-304?
Hi, I am a Freshman and I will be taking Organic Chem next
year. I have a question regarding the difference between CHM
301 and CHM 303. From those I have talked to thus far, and
reading the course descriptions, it seems that 301 is much
more problem-based whereas 303 concentrates on lectures. I was
wondering if you had any more detailed information on
differences between the two, and more importantly, as a premed
student, if medical schools prefer one class over the other.
Many people have told me that 303 is pretty much all premeds
because of its Biological emphasis. Is it advised that a
premed take 303 over 301? I also intend on taking BioChem the
fall of my junior year. The description lists 303 as the start
of a three semester course ending with BioChem. Is it required
(or advised) that I take 303 if I wish to take BioChem? Will I
be restricted from taking BioChem if I take the 301/302 route?
Answer: We've received many versions of your question ever
since the new Orgo was announced. With one of our primary
goals at HPA being to prepare you for favorable review by
admissions committees at medical schools some day, we must
tell you that both versions of Organic Chemistry will be
viewed well by med schools, and which course you select does
not matter from that perspective. What will matter is your
performance in the course, so we would encourage you to
consider how you learn most effectively (in problem-based
situations or traditional lecture) and whether or not the
biological emphasis of the 303-304 sequence appeals to you.
Most pre-meds will probably take the 303-304 sequence since
biological sciences are their 'thing,' but it's not necessary.
Either class will prepare you for the Organic portion of the
MCAT and will be accepted by medical schools.
As for Biochem, it is our understanding that the Chem Dept
plans to continue to offer MOL 345 (the current Biochem) in
addition to the Biochem that concludes the 303-304 sequence,
so you will have a choice of Biochems. It's best to consult
with the Chem Dept directly on that one, however, just to make
sure their plans haven't changed.
Math — the More, the Better?
Hello, I am a freshman and want to go pre-med. I took AP calc AB and AP calc BC in high school and received a 5 and 4, which I know places me out of the med school requirements for math. I enrolled in MAT 201 multivariable calculus and just wanted to know what the most prestigious med schools would think if I did not continue with math after this semester. Is it advisable to continue with math? I’m unsure of what to do . . .
Answer: You are indeed done with your Math for medical school. You were done when you arrived in September, as long as the University granted you 2 units of AP for your work in high school. No, it is not advisable to continue with Math unless you have a particular interest or talent in the subject. “Prestigious” or no, the medical schools that require some college Math (roughly 30-40% of them) do not favor applicants who have done more Math beyond what they require. Unless it was a pre-requisite for something else you intend to do or unless you have a natural interest in calculus, you did not need to be in 201 this fall and you do not need to continue. Of course, challenging yourself academically is always wise—but there are many, many ways to do that at Princeton.
Forfeiting AP Credit
Dear HPA:
I am a freshman who is entering the University with a lot of AP credit. I have credit in Chemistry, Biology, Physics, and Math. I've read through your handout from orientation and I understand what classes you recommend but I'm worried that I won't do well if I take classes that are too difficult. To be honest, I want to make sure my grades are good for medical school, so I'm going to take CHM 201-202 now and PHY 101-102 next year even though I have AP in these subjects. Is that OK?
Answer: No, it is not advisable. We are so glad you asked this question! When the University granted you AP credit, it was based on your performance on a variety of AP or AB tests, or on some other high school qualification that assures us that you have the basic knowledge in these subjects. Medical schools would prefer that you do not retrace your steps and avoid the challenges of upper-level coursework. You do not need to take on too much as a freshman, true, but over the course of the next four years we expect you to move forward and learn new material in the four basic pre-medical sciences (Biology, Chemistry, Physics, and Math). In some isolated instances, after consulting with the student, we do suggest repeating ONE introductory course in ONE subject where the student has AP credit, but this is rare. Medical schools state very clearly that they prefer you proceed to higher level material. If you're worried about preparing for the MCAT, remember that you will review the introductory material diligently in the 3-4 months prior to the test, and will probably take a professional prep course as well. If you're worried about your knowledge of general chemistry as a pre-requisite for Organic Chemistry, purchase the General Chemistry textbook taught at Princeton and review it next summer before you start Orgo. And lastly, remember that all AP credit granted to you will be listed on your Princeton transcript when you send it to medical schools, even if you've gone back and done the introductory courses over again and forfeited your AP. They will see that you spent many, many hours taking the "easy route" when you could have been much more adventurous and brave in your academic choices.
Repeating Classes
Dear HPA: When do you suggest retaking a class? And if I
repeat the class how does it affect my GPA?
Answer: Poor performance in a course does not always
necessitate repeating that course. For one thing, if the
course was not a pre-med requirement then repeating it is not
necessary. If it was a course required for admission to
medical school, we encourage you to come into Health
Professions Advising and discuss it, since your overall
performance needs to be looked at--the one weak grade needs
context for us to be able to advise you properly. Generally
speaking, though, a grade of C- or lower (C-, D or F) warrants
a repeat, at either
Princeton or another institution. Most medical schools do not like
to see C and C+'s in the pre-med requirements, but they still
accept them. They draw the line, however, at C-, stating that
they will not accept C-'s, D's, or F's because these grades do
not indicate mastery of the subject. A grade of C or better
usually indicates basic understanding of the material, and the
student should generally go on and take more science at a
higher level, and perform better, to correct the problem.
In some isolated instances, after consulting with the student,
we do suggest repeating a course even with a grade of C or C+;
this is usually because the student does not feel prepared to
perform well on the corresponding section of the MCAT.
As for your Princeton GPA, the grade you receive when
repeating a class at Princeton
does factor into your Princeton GPA, but you do not receive credit toward graduation for the repeat. Your AMCAS
GPA - which medical schools will view - is comprised of all
grades earned at any institution since high school. This GPA
can also be improved by repeating a course. To quote the AMCAS
Instruction Booklet: "AMCAS counts all attempts of a repeated
course . . ."
Biochemistry, I
Hi. I have a question regarding chemistry requirements for
medical school. I understand that if we use our 2 units of AP
to place out of introductory chemistry, then we should take an
upper-level course in chemistry to fulfill the requirements
for med school. I was wondering how many such upper-level
chemistry courses you would recommend we take, and whether
they ought to include a lab. Does Biochemistry count as one
of these upper-level classes, and is it sufficient (even
though it doesn't have a lab at Princeton)?
Also, is it all right to take the upper-level class during my
senior year while I'm applying to med school, or should I take
it earlier? Thank you.
Answer: Yes! Biochemistry is a great choice. Some med
schools require it but many recommend it, so we, too,
recommend it, particularly for those with AP who need an
upper-level chemistry course. Go to LINK for a list of schools requiring or suggesting Biochem (UT-San
Antonio will be added to the "required" list soon). Med
schools accept our Biochem as an upper-level chemistry course
even though it does not have a lab. As for when to take it,
IDEALLY you'd have completed Biochem prior to applying if you
were choosing any schools that require it; however, it is
acceptable to take it while applying. Of course, then, for
the schools that merely "suggest" the course, it is certainly
OK to take it during the application process.
Biochemistry, II
Since classes have started, I've noticed that basically all of my pre-med friends are in Biochem. But I've read that many medical schools do not require it. Do you think it makes sense that I take it? For all of the schools that "recommend" it, how serious is that recommendation? Thanks, HPA!
Answer: There are 14 schools that require Biochem and they're listed on our website. If you don't think you'll apply to any of those, then Biochem is just a suggestion, not a requirement. It is suggested by approximately 70 medical schools at last count. This is not a "veiled" requirement; truly, it is a recommendation. The only exception is if you have 2 units of AP in Bio or Chem and you're using Biochem as one of the upper-level Bio or Chem courses because you skipped either EEB 211 or CHM 201-202. Biochem is a great choice as a course to fulfill this upper-level requirement in either Bio or Chem for those with AP credit. But if you have already taken MOL 214 and EEB 211, and you also have CHM 201-202, then Biochem is merely a suggestion. Med schools like to see it, but it is not required. |
