Wikipedia:Neutral point of view/Examples Debate

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Topic 1
Darwin's theory of natural selection is the best available explanation of the diversity of life we see today.

My answer - not - MB

and my - yes. We should limit NPOV if we don't want to end with "Earth is considered to be round by majority, but some people claim it's flat")

It is a fact that some people believe the Earth is flat. What is wrong with noting that, providing a link to an article on "flat-earthers" and moving on? I would rephrase the sentence as you have put it, but I don't see anything wrong with it. - MB

What is wrong is that it would be pissing all physicists/astronomers/scientists/etc and it isn't any better than presenting round-earth as a fact (plus maybe a foonote about some "flat-earth")

The same with evolution. It's a fact. Why would we want to piss all biologists/scientists/etc. by stating otherwise ? User:Taw

I think we need to consider that wikipedia articles about evolution will in the future br reviwed by an expert. Such expert will not consider that creationism deserves any atention in such an article. But he would mention panspermia. I think that, in scientific subjects, we should adopt a PV of a Science or Nature editor. user:joao

I fully agree with user:joao. User:Taw

I am not convinced. The majority of humans believe in some kind of supernatural activity in the formation of what is, not all of them are christians, and not all of them are stupid. We should at the very least characterize the popularity of such beliefs, and attempt to clarify the debate. To consider that the majority of people are just so stupid that their veiws deserve no mention is just weird and certianly is not NPOV.

Fortunatelly majority of people doesn't believe in either flat Earth or creationism. If a lot of people believed in some theory that is clearly against science and well-established scientific theories, it should of course be mentioned, but it should not appear on the same rights as proper scientific theories. User:Taw

It is the random and purposless clause of most descriptions of evolution which are rejected by a large majority of americans (where the subject is most controversial) and the majority people in the world. There is significant survey data out there to back up this claim. Certianly you are correct that most folks and most scientists reject creationism, but most consider it likely that there is some kind of purposive activity behind the world they see around them. I don't buy your theory, and I have a real problem with your solution. There is lots and lots of debate on talk:creationism and you should read it, think about it, and respond to it, rather than going off on your own to try to make a new wikipedia policy. -- (not attributed)

Personally, I would find this go too far, but would be ok with:
Darwin's theory of natural selection is considered the best available explanation of the diversity of life we see today.

By the way, even as a statement about the current biological theory, this might be too simplistic to be considered right - there are a number of important factors apart from natural selection: genetic drift and specification through geographical isolation, to name two. But that's not really important to this debate, I guess. -- User:Andre Engels

This page is pretty stale, but I felt like chiming in anyway :) I think the problem is the word "best" can pretty much never be NPOV. What do you mean by best? Do you mean it is the best fit for the known facts, or the best explanation? Or do you mean it's the best put-together? Or do you mean it's the best for the good of society as a whole? Some of these notions are more subjective than others. The sentence has another problem that Andre Engels noted: Darwin's theory of Natural Selection is *not* the same as current mainstream science's. Most scientists today would not consider Darwin's theory to be the best in any way, but would consider some of the more refined versions we have today to be the best available. I'm not sure whether this problem should be considered a NPOV problem or just a factual error, but either way, be careful people! PenguiN42 17:53, 12 Apr 2004 (UTC)

Topic 2
Darwin's theory of natural selection is the most widely accepted scientific explanation of the diversity of life we see today. - acceptable or not?

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